QUESTION: The biggest fear I have as a born-again Christian is the fear that my children will not be included in God’s grace offering. Growing up Hyper-Calvinist, it was implied that children very rarely can be born again. I know that’s not true, but my upbringing makes it hard to rationalize a young person understanding God’s grace. How can I, as a parent, not only be a proper steward but also feel confident in my children’s belief they are saved

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Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

church, children, pastor, good, hyper calvinist, grace, kids, worship, preaching, pastoral, sermons, question, seasoned saints, boring, outwardly, god, terry johnson, faith, bible, parents

SPEAKERS

Dr James Renihan, Pastor Jim Butler, Dr Richard Barcellos

Pastor Jim Butler  00:08

Oh, this is a good one. I think this really has a pastoral element to it. And I want to defer to you: the biggest fear I have as a born-again Christian is the fear that my children will not be included in God’s grace offering. Growing up hyper Calvinist, it was implied that children very rarely can be born again. I know that’s not true, but my upbringing makes it hard to rationalize a young person understanding God’s grace. How can I, as a parent, not only be a proper steward but also feel confident in my children’s belief they are saved?

Dr James Renihan  00:47

I don’t know that you can have confidence that they are saved, but what comes to mind as a very simple answer to that, we have a friend who’s a deacon in a church in Arizona. As two boys, if I said his name, you’d know him. I mean, probably do. He one time said to me, I make sure that my children go with me to the worship of God every time it’s open, because I figure that’s one more sermon that they will get the benefit of. If we only went to the morning services, they would lose 50 sermons a year, and over the course of 10 years, 500 sermons, he recognizes that the best way, besides living a Christian life before his children and all the rest, the best way to bring them to faith is to use the appointed means of grace. We believe that normally, not exclusively, but normally, conversions come as a result of the proclamation of the Word of God. So you bring your children to the worship. You teach them how to sit, how to listen, maybe on the way home, you converse with them about what they heard, ask them some questions. Create an environment in the home in which they know that they’re loved, that their parents marriage is solid, but that the church is central in the life of the family, and bring them to the means of grace. Trust that God will use the means of grace to bring conversion into the lives of those children. You know, all my, all five of my kids, have professed their faith, and I’ve had other pastors say to me, how’d you do it?

Pastor Jim Butler  02:30

You got lucky.

Dr James Renihan  02:31

How did you do this? And I’m, I’m surprised that they even asked that question because it’s not about a parental method; it’s about God’s grace and about what he does. And of course, I pray that my kids will persevere to the end, after I die, what will their lives be like, and what will they be like when, when they’re my age? I can’t know that, but it wasn’t anything special in our home, it was simply bringing them to worship every week, living the Christian life before them, teaching children how to sit in church, how to listen in church. My wife had a whole method that she went through. Of course, I was always not sitting with the family because I was up front preaching, and she just brought them along, being so that they were able to listen and learn. So I can sympathize with the question, of course, we want to deny the hyper-Calvinist view that seldom are children converted. I would rather say, if God’s blessing is upon it, they will often be converted and live a life of faith until they go to be in His presence. But there’s no method.

Pastor Jim Butler  03:48

Yeah, that’s a great emphasis. I think Terry Johnson, too, he’s written a lot of books on, you know, family religion and that sort of thing. He really puts a lot of emphasis on that: bring them to church. And I think we’ve lost that. I think it’s coming back. I remember you and I talking one time somebody. I think it was Chris Austin, or I think I’ve heard this about Luther. I need some pastoral counsel. You know, I need some pastoral help. So five minutes, and then see on Sunday, and we hear that, and we say, Oh no, they need ongoing Thursday afternoon accountability. And I’m not saying that’s never a way to go. Thursday afternoon, yeah, you should be at work or loving your wife and kids. But Sunday, come to church on Sunday, that’s, it’s not a magic key. It’s the means of grace.

Dr James Renihan  04:38

And it’s not, you know, it’s always said to hear the people who do two things. One, they give up church because of sports. So the soccer league is playing on Sunday morning, and I want my kids to be in soccer or little league baseball. So pastor, for the next two months, we’re not going to be in church. Or the other thing is, they leave the church because another church has as a flashier youth program, yeah. Oh. We want this for our kids. We want them to be able to have fun. We want them to learn about the Bible in a context that’s fun. Well, seldom are those fun churches really doing any good to the souls of the children. It’s the churches that are faithful in a form of worship that is regulated by scripture, where there is faithful preaching of the Word. It may seem outwardly boring. I had this woman came up to me at a conference once. No, I’m not going to tell the whole story, because if certain people listen to this, they’ll figure it out. But she was telling me how someone told her don’t go to a Reformed Church: their worship is boring. Okay? Maybe it is boring because we sing psalms and we sing hymns, we read the Bible, we pray and we have sermons, and the sermons are 45 minutes or an hour long, okay? It’s not flashy. There aren’t special musical groups. All of those things are not happening that may outwardly seem boring. Of course, my question is, what pleases God?

Pastor Jim Butler  06:06

Yeah, acceptable, yeah. And who’s it acceptable to?

Dr James Renihan  06:10

Right, who’s it acceptable to, not us? It’s not to satisfy my desires. So parents, bring your children to worship and live a life of faith before them and trust that God will use the means that he has appointed.

Pastor Jim Butler  06:28

And I think when that happens, preachers, pastors, are cognizant of that, and they want to connect with the children and show them scripture and texts and emphasize the gospel and the things that they need to hear. It’s a wonderful, wonderful dynamic both ways.

Dr James Renihan  06:44

Yeah, I love to, you know, I visit a lot of churches, and it’s always great to see the six-year-olds run up to the pastor for the weekly hug. I know then, then that man, yes, has reached that family, and that little child loves her pastor, even though she doesn’t understand much because she’s only six years old. There’s a foundation.

Dr Richard Barcellos 07:06

Hence the painting, the picture, the sheet. Oh, yeah. Have you preaching?

Pastor Jim Butler  07:10

Yeah, that’s that’s cool, really.

Dr Richard Barcellos 07:12

That’s one thing I look for as when I go preach elsewhere, and I don’t tell the pastor if he’s there until afterwards, I watch and see what the older saints, especially the older women in the church and the kids, do with the preaching pastor, the main preacher. And I was at a larger church a couple years ago, and I didn’t tell the brother, you guys know him, what I was doing. I told him afterwards. I said, you passed the test. And even in a larger church, they had like four or 500 people there. Same thing. He knew the names of all the seasoned saints, and then all the kids, and they came up and gave him big ol’ hug. And I thought, that’s a good sign!

Dr James Renihan  07:53

Yeah, its a very good sign, yeah. So it’s, you know, it’s, it’s really simple, yeah, it’s not complicated, yeah, yeah. And we cannot promise anything to anybody, but use the means of grace faithfully.

Pastor Jim Butler  08:04

Yeah, use the means of grace in all areas. Yeah, good. Well, I think we’ll probably stop there. I don’t want to launch a new one. Uh, thank you both very much for being here. It’s been a nice discussion, and just a reminder, we have these already. I think there’s eight of them that Wim has edited. They’re available on all of our social media platforms. I figured I should say that because it sounds pretty hip.

Dr James Renihan  08:35

You’re a hip guy!

Pastor Jim Butler  08:36

hip guy. No, you’re not. I don’t know that anybody would describe me. Is typically not the adjective, but he’s done really good work, and there’s just a you know, get this good theology, good Bible teaching out for people that have questions, and perhaps they can share it with others as well. So thank you very much. Look forward to the conference. As far as the conference is concerned. We have the Friday sessions, the Saturday sessions. Dr Renihan will be speaking in Surrey in the morning service. Dr Barcells in our church on the Lord’s day, yes. And then you’ll be back in the evening to speak for us. And then I take you to the airport on Monday. It’s been a whirlwind tour. Yeah, had a nice time in Boston, yeah, yeah. It was good, good to be with you guys there.

Dr James Renihan  09:23

Flew from the East Coast to the West Coast.

Dr Jim Renihan 09:25

Yeah, the West Coast to the East Coast to the West Coast.

Dr James Renihan  09:29

Well, you guys are special, yeah, yeah.